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Tuesday, June 26, 2012

A Conversation on Being Nice

So, I was in a discussion with an acquaintance again over theology and he had a fairly intense statement that he made.  He is a Catholic, so I was compelled to follow his statement with a response.  Read on:

People get on the internet and rant about Buddhism, Judaism, Jainism, atheism etc etc. There are Catholics who want to burn heretics that disagree with them and back up their opinions with 'facts' from their particular organisation. But that doesn't make them right! My solid facts come from the heart, which I believe is from the Holy Spirit. And love of Christ can only come from the heart not from a book of rules. So no, I can't prove my facts to you if you can't see them, anymore than I could to an atheist. The fact that other traditionalists disagree with you is some indication of the possibility that you could be wrong in some but not all aspects. Personally I don't believe any religion has got it 100% and the CC doesn't claim it has or Popes wouldn't be giving personal opinions. I am not in anyway a qualified theologian believing just in the truth of Jesus Christ and his words which is the common ground that I share with you and why I call you brother and care enough to take the time to share views with you. Possibly I too am a little abrupt, the inhibitions of the internet and the inability of it to convey true feelings etc. I'm sorry that you see it as a harsh criticism, that wasn't my intention. I just wanted to give you another perspective. I do hope this thread could continue on it's original course because I am interested in what other traddies have to say. One interesting point is that I notice that Voris has comments disabled? Fr. Barron whom I have some deal of respect for is willing to take on trolls like me. I could be wrong, but I suspect that Voris is tired of even trad Catholics having rage faces at him. Making sure your crucifix is strait and polished and you bow instead of genuflect while avoiding all eye contact with other parishioners, I'm sorry to say is a fail. I go more for the 'feeding the hungry.....

I responded thusly:

Your solid facts come from the heart. What is that? How can you possibly be objective? Perhaps your only goal is to troll and stir up dust, perhaps not, but one cannot have a serious discussion about anything if there is nothing to back it up.

Example: It's like being a Cubs fan. Every year they go on and on about this being the year and year after year, they don't win. But you can't tell them they aren't good, despite over 100 years of not winning a World Series. -OR- It's like being that guy who asks a supermodel out on a date and she says, "Yeah, I'll go out with you....when Hell freezes over." To which he responds, "So you're sayin' there's a chance....all right, all right."

Come on, let's be serious, you'd blast me into smithereens if I just got up and ranted "from the heart." You'd go on about how I'm just a mean old traddy who isn't open, blah, blah, blah...whatever dude. See, I understand that something can be said, "from the heart" with facts to prove it. That is what makes Catholicism alot different than other religions, like Buddhism, or Taoism or Judaism or Islam, or even Protestantism...the Catholic faith isn't just based upon the subjective. Everything about Catholicism can be backed up 2 deep. With theology and philosophy. So, come off it.

As for enabling or disabling's his blog or vlog. Voris can do what he wants. I'm not going to judge him, just like I'm not going to judge Fr. Barron for enabling comments. I can tell ya though, only once have I disabled comments on my blog and that was for a super solid reason. So, whatever on that too.

As for other traddy's disagreeing with me, who are you talking about? Most traddys I know agree with me, but that isn't an indication of anything. It's ok to have a discussion and weed through the marsh, but that doesn't mean that we ultimately disagree....

Example, a good friend and I and I have a history of going back and forth over this issue, but honestly, it is an intellectual discussion. At the end of the day, he's Catholic and so am I. Albeit, he's Eastern Catholic and I'm Western. And if it came down to brass tacks, I'd be willing to bet he's gonna meet me where I worship before he meets up with someone at this place. And I'm going to assist at this place before I go here.

Legitimate discussion and legitimate disagreement isn't a bad thing, however once one understands that salvation really does only come from the Church,'s a different issue. Now, that being said, it does not mean that we are not to be tolerant of others, but we are to be tolerant insofar as we provide them a conduit to the truth. Some people have a gentler style. Fine. Some people have a harsher style. Fine. There is room for both. But being nice, well...there really isn't any room for that in the Church. For what is the origin of the word nice? It is to be ignorant or foolish. I'm neither. So, I don't want to be considered nice. I'd much rather considered to be amiable. Nice just doesn't cut it.

If you want to discuss issues, I would love to discuss issues with you all day. This, though, this is bearing no fruit. None, unless you're going to open your heart (which you say guides you) to listening and hearing what is being said to you....that includes Voris. And that includes me. See, the penultimate difference between you and me is that in reality, I'm open to hearing other views...and you're not. You just want me to be nice and accept any view that comes across the interwebz...sorry. That is being disingenuous to my faith and to myself.
So, no I'll not be nice. Sorry.  

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